Responce to Nov.12 letter
I don’t know who you are but I loveyaman.  This in my mind is the politically correct version of a not so politically correct letter my insultant consultant has ask me to stash away in my drafts.
Responce to Concerned Oct 13th letter

1.)Boardman lake is not natural and 30 years ago or more it was drained Via the Union Street Dam 12 to 15 feet if my memory serves me correctly it was somthing to do with the sewage treatment plant upsizing.

2.)At the next meeting I would like you to introduce one person not agenda driven representing the community Because it is such a public driven process.

3.)Intiative to be a part of the process?
Maybe no one comming forward to be a part of the decision making process or (Destruction making process) could be taken as a hint that the public has no intention to do what your BRDC agenda driven personal are doing with or without the public imput Ya think?

4.) Thank you BRDC for providing an excellant forum for the exchange of censored Ideas

Replay to comment made on October 13, 2007 at 12:56 PM.

It’s so easy to criticize other people about lack of respect when it’s affects you or your friends personally, or most likely it affects your agenda in a negative way. What if the decisions that are being made directly affected much of what you worked for half of your life?  The analogies and statements being made in the above comments are NOT based on a lack of respect; it’s based from frustrations, maybe a lack of knowledge and most likely just different opinions.

Your comment about lack of respect hits me like a committee of people burning down my house, and then telling me to settle down and stop acting like such a wiener it’s all for the better of there agenda.

You said this project is very open and involves everybody in the decision-making process. Well, as a property owner on the river which you are most likely are NOT. I never received any postal mail, any phone calls or any voting propositions on supposedly your open forum projects.

The last time I went canoeing I saw many neon orange sign’s on the water side that said FU DEQ – I bet if you asked those property owners they would also have a different opinion about your comment that said “involving everybody in the decision making process”.

I also did a word search on the words “boardman lake” from the above comments and didn’t find anyone accusing that the Boardman Lake of being drained. I’m a little confused by that statement.

I am concerned about the overarching lack of respect and appreciation of good information being written about on this site.  First, the Boardman Lake has never been “drained”.  Boardman Lake is 70 feet deep, and the only way it could ever be drained is if someone dug a 70 foot deep channel from the outlet of Boardman Lake to the mouth of Lake Michigan.  Second, the Boardman River Dams Project is the most open, community-driven project I have ever seen.  The people involved in the BRDP have gone above and beyond to involve everybody in the decision-making process, and when people criticize the process they are basically criticizing themselves because they had and will continue to have a multitude of opportunities to participate in this process.  For example, the engineering and consulting firm that was hired to provide scientific data and analysis was selected by volunteers from the BRDC.  Any of you could have participated in that process if you had taken the initiative to do so. 

The overarching theme of this blog is a common lack of respect for other peoples views.  Most of you ardently portray your opinions, which is great, but you do it with a general lack of appreciation and respect for other views.  For example, some of you are very upset with the recent drawdown of Boardman Pond and point out the reasons why.  However, by only pointing out your perceived negatives of the drawdown, you portray a very one-sided and uninformed view.  I have always thought that the best way to efficiently argue for a certain point of view is to fully understand and appreciate all other views on a given issue.  The BRDC provides a great opportunity for everybody to learn, share, and appreciate (or at the very least acknowledge) numerous ideas regarding this process.  So please keep your opinions coming, but please respect and appreciate that your opinion is not always right, and the only way you will find out if your opinion is right is to keep an open mind and appreciate or acknowledge other views.

Thank you BRDC for providing an excellent forum for the exchange of ideas.

Wow, what we need is more Power Points or fancy words like Presteen River or remove and restore. I like bring the river back to its natural state, guess what people Cyanide and Cocaine are natural, so are Tornadoes and Hurricane’s. If a Tornado plows through Traverse City and destroys your home shouldn’t we leave the aftermath as is? After all, it’s only a natural occurring event. Give be a break people as a land owner on the river no committee, or reservation group ever purposed a solution for the property owners to save the dams. I never received any mail, phone calls or voting propositions on our options. I like many property owners would have gladly pad a special tax or something to help save the dams. What’s funny is if you take all the legal cost, all the paid studies that are being done, and the cost of cleaning up the aftermath plus the cost of tearing down and cleaning up of the dams you probably could have repaired each dam two times over. Please whoever you all are don’t make this into a money matter when you probably haven’t touched the surface for that solution. This has always been an environmental moooovement. If you do any research this subject you will find this is a network committed people dedicated to destroy and remove all dams regardless of the out come.

For us local people I guess having more salmon swimming into Traverse City by the tens of thousands then die and rot, or spend the money to remove the decaying fish are more important than maintaining river levels, and land value, possible alternative power to our homes and other activates, like canoeing, tubing, camping, hiking and such.

This is the bottom line, people are evil, they should stay away from the river because all they do is pollute and destroy the environment. We should leave the river alone and let it take its natural course even if that means the river could turn into a stream or dry up some day.

You said you wanted to hear a solution…. Well here it is … now that you have let the water level down so everyone can see what it did to our environment.  Stop spending all your money in lawyers and studies and fix the freaking DAM!!!!!

Bring the water back!

Bring the property owner and tax payers together show them the before and after pictures and this is a no brainier.

This is for Everyone that thinks I don’t know I have become redundant in the defence of the once Beautiful, Peaceful, Eco-system.  I just recieved a letter from the attorney General Mike Cox and it seams the DEQ has finally admitted that there were wetlands and emergant wetlands destroyed durring the draw-down.  One small step for us but one giant leap for MDEQ. and how much did that cost us tax payers?.  We now plan to prove that the dam and spillways meet and exceed all specifacations.  And the MDEQ’s allegations are fictitious, that the basis to which they formed the dicision triggering Frenitic Unheeded Destruction of Environamental Quality is truly lacking any merrit… The Dam is safe He (Mr. Pawloski )addmitted under oath stating that the problem was in the spillway.  If we have a half millennioum or 500 yr flood.  He said in his OPINION the third spillway would would fail taking out Cass Road.  Right there his own words tell you the spillway worked diverting the water from the dam saving the structure but taking out the road. Question Now?.  When the Road commission put the road right thru the spillway they must have weighed the pros and cons of what they were doing right?.
The engineered report used stated that in such a rain event Brown Bridge Dam, Sabin Dam and no doubt many roads, homes and properties would also be comprimised. BUT IT DID NOT ANY WHERE SAY THAT THIS DAM WOULD FAIL IT IS ONLY MR.PAWLOSKI"S OPINION.  Which by the way a DAM ENGINEER forming an opinion with out FACTS?. 
Excuse me but in my opinion a Dam Engineer should not be allowed to start somthing so massive and destructive on a opinion and I think that our County Administrator and all the Commissioners of this County should take a little deeper look here to what they have done and get these
answers themselves.  Are they really being made by the DEQ to do this?  Or is this a collaborated attempt to rid themselves of any liabilities in the future?.  Given the past maintance record of the structure as basis to future failure?....

I love how people say “drain it and clean it”. Would you like to be the one to pay for that???  Let me just say, as a kayaker who was hurt in the log jamb, just before Lone Pine Trail, that draining the pond created, if you havent been down to the river or the pond to see what it looks like now, DONT BOTHER TO SAY ANYTHING!!
Has anyone been there since the DNR and KAYAK Club got together and took that log jamb out?? The river has swallowed the river banks and now the 50 foot tall trees have washed out and are now laying across the river. I know they meant well, but look what has happened now!!
How much money is it going to take to fix all the damage that is done now to make it safe for ANYONE? How much money is it going to take to drain and clean things??
People, we are living in a struggling economy already, where on earth do you think the money will come from?? You gonna donate a ton of money to do that?? I know im not, for the people that did this in the first place should rectify what they have done!!!
The Record Eagle’s pictures dont begin to show the damage down there. It doesnt give you an idea of how bad it smells. It doesnt tell you that when you are kayaking, you cant see your paddle in the pond. It doesnt tell you that you barely see wildlife. It doesnt tell you about the people that have been hurt or had to dredge through the black silt to get their belongings after getting dumped from their kayaks or canoe.
BEFORE ANYONE ELSE (ASIDE FROM BRUCE) SAYS ANYTHING, GO DOWN THERE AND LOOK FOR YOURSELF. Be sure and take a mask for the smell and watch your step not to fall down the 17 foot embankment.

How long have you been in Traverse City Jim?
That lake was drained years ago for repairs to the Sewage treatment plant.  Drain to a fraction of it’s self I’m sure there are pictures somewhere in the archives to show what it was like 12 to 15 ft lower and it could be drained that much in a few days too I’m guessing.  Drain it and Clean it!!!!!!!

I can’t think of a worse excuse why not to take that dam out?  OH it is to contaminated to remove that Dam we don’t want the contaminates to move down river.  Down River where?  The rest of it is just as bad..... Drain it and clean it or the contaminates will be there forever.  Contaminates I’m sure every mother would love their children to learn how to sail in or how to swim in or catch fish for food in. I once caught a 20 inch Bass with two stomachs by the Train Tressel I understand it is not uncommon in that lake with all the pollutants...never fished there again.

For those concerned about the fate of Boardman Lake if Union Dam is removed, keep in mind that Boardman Lake, is a natural occuring body of water. It will not be reduced to a “trickle”.

Also for the trout fisherman who wants the “natural"spawning of salmon be allowed up the river, I would remind them that salmon are hardly natural to the area. Although salmon are a great resource, both economically and recreationally, they like most of our resources ...need to be managed!

I like it when everyone says we should let it go natural.
1.) First of all lets look at a few facts there is a fish weir is that natural?
2.) There is the Dam on Union street which is not going to be removed, because it has been said at a previous meeting that there is to much contaminated sediment is that natural?
3.)Outdated Sewer Treatment Plant not far from that. Is that natural?
4.)Bridges, Train Tressels, Logan’s landing and has anyone seen the contamination from the cement plant the Steel fab co., the old Tannahill and young cattle processing bldg.where all the blood letting for years went right in to the river ,not to mention the toxic sledge ozzing from the hills by Integrity Steel,
let me see two different City Dumps, how about a city county transit and school bus station on a dirt parking lot I remember
Mr. Jullious Sleder… Ford, was not allowed to park cars even ones with no oil or gas where the new Ford Dealer is because the was no paved lot or water retainage ... Has anyone seen where the busses are all parked ?  Idon’t know how many but about 100 busses leaking Oil, Greese, and Dissel fuel, has anyone smelled or seen the Dissel Haze that layes in the valley on a calm winter morning after all the busses are warmed up and ready to take our children off to school.
IS THIS ALL NATURAL????  God People why don’t we clean up what we have destroyed all ready before we destroy the rest of it.  Excusse me judgeing by my last tour of the mud puddle in the bottom of the quarry pit it looks like we are to late. Sunday 8/26/07
I was shocked by the amount of Rock Snot and sediment floating in the pit I was also shocked that the only duck I seen in the 3 mile streach of Valley was a dead one a few dead fish and stench.....The people who have dreamed this up need to be choke in the same manor the are chokeing all of the wildlife and fish out here.
Thank You
BRUCE CARPENTER
NATURE INSPIRED ARTIST

As someone stated, there is a small community of people who want whitewater. I don’t I love the river the way it is. I wouldn’t be able to kayak it if it were whitewater and I get so much enjoyment from it now. I paddle with a ever-changing group of 15-30 people. Some of these people are learning to paddle. Whitewater is “in” for some. For others, keep it the same. I definitely don’t accept creating an artificial playground especially when all the discussion is about going natural.

I think we need to know how fast the river will move and the feet it will drop naturally if the dams are removed.

I also enjoy fishing for fish other than trout. I can’t go out on Lake Michigan, but the Boardman River system is in my backyard.

How can you possibly fix something that has been totally destroyed? Have you seen that muck HOLE? What an eyesore!!! I think all these people have great idea’s, but in the end we all know who will have the last word, and it won’t be the people.I do hope something comes of all this and the right thing is done. GOOD LUCK!!!

The county commission has been put in a very difficult position. The decision by the DEQ to require the drawdown of the pond has not helped the situation.
The commissioners will have to consider the positions of many special interest groups who will have their own agenda’s when making decisions regarding the future of the Boardman River.  These will be complex and far reaching decisions which in some cases will involve large sums of public money, environmental concerns, recreational usage, and private property issues.
The river will either evolve and return to it’s natural state or there will be a pond again.  Either scenario will have positives and negatives depending on the interests of those involved.  It is understandable that the commision will need as much impartial data and enviromental impact reports to make the decisions to retain or not retain the dams, however the property owner issues could be addressed without detailed data and in a more timely manner.
Even without public hearings or a countywide vote it is clear that the majority of the public in Grand Traverse County, and the entire country for that matter, does not want the government taking private property from citizens and, in essence, that is what could happen.  Legal opinions regarding bottomland ownership of impoundments seem to contradict logic and fairness.  The fair and logical approach would have current owners retaining property ownership to the edge of the water.
The county should deed the newly exposed bottomland back to the property owners.  Various concerns could be addressed in the new deeds.  If the land is in danger of severe errosion a conservation easement could be stipulated.  The public trails could continue along the West side of the river with usage stipulations in the deed.  All possible concerns could be addressed.
The commissioners face a complex task, however in the case of property ownership, fairness and “doing the right thing” should be the primary consideration.

Ladies and Gentlemen is it safe to say what is being envisioned here is a channel capable of handling any amount of water ever thought possible and the backwater of this channel would be maintained at an elevation, which would honor the wishes of the National Audubon Society and Nature Educational Reserve and the property owners?  The water would then flow thru this channel and drop approximately 50 feet over a 200-yard stretch of valley viewable from the Dam looking due north, thus creating a Fish ladder / Canoe / inter tubing / extreme kayaking recreational area to be embraced by everyone in the community.  Perhaps a less extreme situation on one side of the channel for those who respect or fear the power of the river more than those extremists who would love the more challenging aspect achieved a few arms lengths away.  This is beginning to look like a possible win win situation.  OK how much? When do we start?  We need to get on with growing and flourishing as mentioned in the letter above, because friends good luck bringing tourism and interest to a quarry pit.

The decision that lies before the County Commissioners will be monumental. 
The most important decision each and every one of them will ever make.
It’s make it or break it. With the elections coming up and two hundred thousand armchair generals waiting in the shadows ready to pounce on this issue, I’m not envious.

The one and most important thing is handing down to our children something special, something to enjoy and be proud of far into the future.  With the possibilities of an all-purpose park at our fingertips in the middle of our sprawling little city, the Hiking, Fishing, Canoeing, Tubing, Biking, Boating, Kayaking, Bird watching and now, breaking ground in September, a very nice new building - The Nature Center, centrally located within all of this is like a dream come true for some of those involved.

Eric’s idea about the whitewater park is right on the money. (http://theboardman.org/d/clonee_whitewaterpark_20070123.pdf)
I would love to see more progressive and out of the box ideas come forward to offer alternatives that everyone can get behind.

We must all realize that things are going to change and we need to move forward in a way that will bring energy to Traverse City instead of division.

The whitewater community in TC is small but dedicated. It would only grow and flourish if promoted, bringing tourism, interest, and money to the area. Not to mention it would be the only option for whitewater kayaking within hundreds or miles.

I am all for the restoration of the Boardman river through the elimination of the dams.  The beauty of a fast running river along with the public access to the trail system along the river will be a benefit to all of the residents of Traverse City.

Dan Farley
Traverse City

To whom it may concern:
Ladies and Gentlemen I would like to believe the hard working men and woman of the Grand Traverse County Commission would like to stand behind thier predecesors dicisions and retain the historical impoundment level upholding the wishes of the National Audubon Society and the Grand Traverse Natural Educational Reserve when in our bicentennial year of 1976 after long debating with the Department of Natural Resourses to set aside this streach of the valley specificaly for waterfowl, Ducks and Geese were the focus not trout.  This dissicion was not popular with the DNR But non the less it was written the the impoundment was to be maintained at is almost natural state which was the pre drawdown level no matter what happens to the dam.

Recognize the level and publicly announce If the dam stays or if the dam goes the water will be restored to a court ordered level equal to the safe opperating level under Traverse City Light and Powers safe opperating guide lines.

Simple acknowlagement of this one issue would release property owners being held hostage.  Owners unable to sell properties due to the uncertianty of the fate of the valley.

Simple acknowlagement of this water level would sway many property owners as well as other damaged parties to concider this good faith jesture as appossed to mutiple possibilties of law suits.  Bottomland ownership, Property damages, Wetland destruction, and the looming possibilty of personal injury everywhere you look. 
Just to mention a few.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Commission of the Great County of Grand Traverse.
Regardless of what happens to the Dam the Acknowlagement of the pre drawdown water level and verbage stating is return would help a lot of people sleep at night around these parts.

Thank you